Taylan Turan, CEO, Retail Banking, HSBC Wealth & Personal Banking

Are you fully present in every meeting?

Taylan Turan, CEO of Retail Banking at HSBC Wealth & Personal Banking, explains how this habit helps him stay resilient and be respectful of others.  

In this episode, we also discuss:

• His style of leadership
• Judging people not by their actions but rather their intentions
• The power of frameworks and framing problems before taking action
• Being intentional with curiosity and personal connections
• Navigating complexity by being confident and not complacent
• What we can learn from three tips he has for his daughter

Based in London, Taylan is a member of the global executive committee of HSBC Wealth & Personal Banking. He has responsibility for a diverse portfolio including the Strategy Office, Retail Banking Customer Segments, International Business and Retail Banking Products, Payments, Marketing, Physical and Digital Channels and Data, Analytics and CRM. Taylan also serves as a non-executive director of HSBC Asset Management. Since joining HSBC in 2009, he's held a number of global, regional and country roles at the bank. Prior to HSBC, he held senior executive roles at Citigroup and Barclays across a number of markets including Turkey, Russia, the Middle East, Africa and Asia.

For more, follow Manageable Conversations and tune in to insights and advice straight from business leaders like Taylan. Each month we bring inspiration such as this and much more to our community of managers world-wide who are boosting team performance and well-being through a coaching style of leadership.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome to Manageable Conversations, the podcast where we speak to leaders across industry sectors. In each episode, we discover their leadership style and its influences, how they stay sharp, and their tips for leaders to get the best from their teams. I'm Farley Thomas, the co-founder of Manageable. We hope this podcast inspires you to be a better leader by learning from others.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

I get much more satisfaction personally, which makes me more resilient if I'm present in that moment in every single meeting, in every single discussion, in every single debate. I just want to be present there.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

That's Tylan Turan, CEO of retail banking at HSBC Wealth and Personal Banking. In this episode, we discuss the importance he attaches to being present in every conversation, judging people not by their actions but their intentions, the power of frameworks and framing problems before taking action, being intentional about curiosity and personal connections, navigating complexity by being confident and not complacent, and what we can learn from three tips he has for his daughter. Thailand, welcome to this episode of Manageable Conversations.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Hi Farley, great to be with you. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

I'd love to, in your own words, get your sense of how you are as a leader.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

First of all, I have this principle in mind that the leadership is not a title. It's a journey. It's been a journey for me at least. I suspect I'm not the only one. I represent so many others who've been going through in their own leadership journeys. And what is shaping, and I'm using present tense because I don't think it's ever gonna end, but what has what is shaping and what has shaped since I started working, my leadership is basically the people around me. And this I'm not only talking about my you know line managers, superiors or more seniors, but also the people, my peers and people that I look after uh shape my leadership fairly. So it's a journey, it's not a title. I have a short list of a longer list that I learned from the people around me. First, integrity. I know it's quite foundational. I I hope again that resonates with most people. For me, it's uh it's a quite a red line. Or maintaining integrity is non-negotiable for me. Number one. Number two is clarity, and this is something that I probably has become a bit more even evident as I moved up in my in my career. I've seen the power of clarity or otherwise the issues of lack of clarity and consistency. So those are the among a longer list. I would put those three as my uh top of the funnel.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

You talked about those that you're accountable to and those who are accountable to you. If they were asked what kind of leader is Thailand, what sorts of things would you expect? And even if it's hard for you to speculate, you know, what sorts of things might come up that you might not necessarily like?

SPEAKER_00 2:45

Okay, all right. So first, you know, I said these three things. I hope in maybe different words, and ideally the same words that you know they come up, you know, the they say that, you know, hey, he's a he's a man of clarity, he's somebody who brings clarity, especially in complex environments, which I hope you will appreciate farly that the the complexity is just getting more and more bigger and bigger for everybody, not only for us, I think because of the external world. So I hope that comes up. This consistency, I I like, and there is a fine line between integrity and consistency, right? You know, typically those people who are consistent also deliver good integrity in terms of they say what they do consistently. You don't need to necessarily read behind the words or the faces. I personally like it when it happens around me. I don't like it when it doesn't happen. I hope they would say that. The other thing, you know, which I didn't put in my top three, but I hope some humility comes up. You know, it it did by the way. I'm saying I hope, but I, you know, as you know, working in an organization like this, or the beauty of it, we do a lot of 360s. We ask each other feedback either openly or through some more structured approaches. These things come up actually. It makes me so happy. The last thing that I would call out, I think, you know, what I heard, which I I really embrace it and I want to demonstrate in how I run the business is the courage. Courage standing for your people, courage standing for your customers, courage for standing for your shareholders consistently all the time, but speaking up when you need to. I think that is something that you know I'd like to hear more. I try to do it, and I was fortunate enough to get that feedback from time to time. So, but you also told me what I don't like. Uh my my list is not as small either. You know, basically one of my values and probably coming from my family is the hard work is like very embedded in who I am. I work hard. And it's not only at work, I work hard as a father, as a as a as a husband. I probably my wife wouldn't agree with that, but I I try. Now, uh the the drawback of that is, you know, some people may be thinking about me as it's like, you know, hey, what is the where is that balance? Is he too much into business? And I heard that feedback in the past. My my takeaway from those is that if I can succeed to show a bit of my personality who I am behind the title, behind the leader as Thailand, I I first enjoy it, and second, it typically works. The problem is, you know, I think this is a challenge for many seniors is that the the bandwidth, right? You know, I enjoy doing it. I wish I could do more, to have more conversations outside work, to have more opportunities to connect with our people outside work. I'm very deliberate about that. I try to do more, but it was it's one of those areas that, you know, some of the things that I'm known for are not dominating who I am as a person. So this is the area that I I keep challenging myself. And I've heard in the past. Hey, Thailand, how do you manage? How do you know keep your resilience up? And the question behind those questions were about this basic Thailand, are you a machine? And I am not at all. At least that's what I believe.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

So if you aren't Thailand, then you will face setbacks and they will impact you. I wonder how do you stay sharp, stay resilient, but especially in your global role within this complex environment that you talked about. Are there any learnings you've had along your journey about ways to kind of cope with the pressure, thrive under pressure?

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Yes, I a lot of learnings. But let me call out a few of them before, if I if if you allow me, uh Farley, my reflection, I'm I'm not inspired by people like machines and out me myself. That's not what inspires me. And it's a very simple thing. And I'm fortunate enough to work with so many people who are sort of rich personalities. And the corporate life, I think it's just that this is a quite an inherent challenge for everybody. That those colorful personalities to bring them to the workplace or the virtual place, it's getting harder and harder. I think that's there's an inherent risk here for me and for many others. You know, so this is a reflection for me, but I I do hope that it's a reflection for so many leaders at whatever level of the seniorities. Now, what did I learn from those setbacks? I would put again two probably here among the longer list. One, what helps me is being present in whatever I do in that particular moment, be it at home, be it at work, or be it wherever I am. I just learned to be much more present than what I used to be in the past. It was a hard one, uh, Farley, I must admit. It was a bit late realization. Because I was like, you know, I think people like us like running all the time. It's very difficult not to think the next thing that you're gonna do. And in in our corporate life, we typically the next meeting, the next few meetings coming up than the one that you're doing here or elsewhere. I think what I learned is, you know, I get much more satisfaction personally, which makes me more resilient if I'm present in that moment, in every single meeting, in every single discussion, in every single debate, or in every single argument with my daughter. You know, I just want to be present there. Second one, uh Farley, is this is a bit philosophical, but it helps me, is judging people not by action but by intent. Especially, you know, it happens, right? You know, we we all get frustrated. You know, what happens is that if I'm either in a meeting or in a one-to-one context, I don't like what I'm hearing, or I don't like what I'm seeing, I manage my frustration much better than I used to do by just thinking, hey, now Farley here is. I know what he's trying to do. You know, he's trying to fix the same problem. He may have a different perspective, but the intent is in the right place. And even if you say something which may I may not appreciate, I don't get frustrated as I used to in the past. And that helps the resilience for me. Those are the two things that I would say that are helping me.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

Was there some event or experience that helped you with respect to being more present, for example?

SPEAKER_00 8:34

No, uh it's not like a one-off event, it's a series of events. By the way, actually, see now you make me reflect. Actually, my wife has been a great coach for me. She said, Thailand, hey, be with me. Hey, Thailand, just can you stop looking at your those days? It was Blackberry, fortunately, it's a long time ago. I I reflected on those a lot, right? You know, did I need to have my email in front of me while I was with my family? Not necessarily, but I was into it. I think you know, those were a few trigger points. I was not probably yet there or mature enough to act on it. Over time, it happened more in at work because the it's not very recent, but I would say I would put it in the in the last probably seven, six, seven years, still relatively, you know, recent for me, at least in the senior times of my career. In our world, as you get more senior, I mean, interestingly, the correlation is that you have more meetings in a day, you have a different scale of those meetings, you're exposed to the boards, you're exposed to the different committees that you are not as you get out of your comfort zone. And it's so easy to over-index to those and then not do justice to the others who are sitting in the meeting. And my reflection of this was the following. And I thought about this, again, internalizing it. If I'm sitting in a meeting, which is my most important meeting, but maybe for my boss, it may not be the most important of the day. I just want to be heard. I just want to be listened. I just want to be paid attention. Now, if you just think about it, you know, every single meeting that I have, especially with my teams, they want to feel the same. They want to get the same, they want to be me present. Then there's a clear conclusion in this, right? They deserve that much, if not more. And I owe that to them. I think that was my you may call it a realization, and please don't judge me. I I was not totally absent, but I was not good enough. And now I'm much more aware of that. You know, I almost feel guilty. Well, actually, literally, I feel guilty I feel I'm not present in the meeting now. Because it's not justice to the other side who put maybe the last three months of work to present it to me.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

So it feels like you've you and or your wife have have coached you into this more present zone, Thailand. You talked about hard work, and I wonder if there is some kind of tension with delegation.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

Delegation is quite, I know, it sounds to me a bit more mechanical. I would use empowerment perhaps, if if you allow me, if I I at least this is one of my principles again in my shorter list. Empowering the people around me is is a principle in my leadership. Now, by definition, empowerment comes with delegation. Or as you empower others, you delegate, you trust them. I genuinely don't believe that there's any trade-off between hard work individually. First of all, typically the job to be done is much bigger than anybody can do herself or himself, right? That's that's that's a safe statement to make. So if you just think on that, you know, and then most of the objectives that we try to deliver are quite audio, quite quite challenging. So I think nobody would say that it's a one-person job at all. Now, I think the where we fall short of, and I did in the past, is the empowerment or the level of empowerment. Do people feel empowered to make their decisions, to take the calls, to make those sometimes calculate, take some calculated risks? And I would say that, you know, in my own world, I think there's a there's a still a significant room to go. For me, it's like I'm I'm much better or I'm at my best, man, I'm trusted and empowered and hence delegated. I know that, you know, it's like if my boss says, Thailand, I trust you, I leave it with you, I'm oh my God. You know, I feel the sense of responsibility first comes very heavily. Like I feel it. And the next thing is I I give my best all in. And I don't think, again, I'm an exception, right? You know, I think so. For me, the sense of empowerment to the people, but also explicitly telling them, hey, I trust you. It's your call, I'll have your back. Giving that safe environment, people move mountains.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

Moving mountains. I wonder if you could comment a little bit upon how do big things get done when there is so much complexity and there are so many moving parts. And you yourself have so many aspects to your role.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

Any tips, tricks? My my history on this is Barley. I've been in in this bank and even other banks in in jobs where I was in a single country looking after a single area, the full P ⁇ L end-to-end, but more contained space to areas where I manage a full country, a region, and now global portfolio of a bank like HSBC. One common denominator in all of those is the power of frameworks. In the global role, even more relevant. If you don't take the time, design your framework and a robust structure before you roll up the sleeves for execution, often you regret. That's been my biggest learning, and I got I got better and better over the years. If I'm gonna solve the problem, I take the time, first frame the problem. Often missed. It's easier said than done framing the problem. Take the time, as you know, some say, first, if you're gonna cut a tree, spend more than half of your time to sharpen your saw before you start cutting the tree. That resonates with me. I learned my lessons, right? You know, so I take the time to design the framework to solve the problem. Once it's clear, may feel a bit maybe slower in the beginning. Oh my God, you run much faster after that. That's what I learned. So I think, you know, the in this how to deal with the complexity of an organization like HSPC, that helps a lot. Invest the time to design your strategy, the framework before you get into execution.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

Thailand, thinking about aspiring managers and leaders or those that want to have bigger responsibilities, any suggestions or tips that you have for them to prepare them?

SPEAKER_00 14:14

I think there's an elevated challenge for all of us in this post-COVID, like a remote working environment, is definitely more challenge to the apprenticeship. Because I think we grew up now, it's gonna look like we are a little bit dinosaurs, but in the learning from each other, learning from our seniors on the job, but we used to call it apprenticeship. It's compromised today. So I still am a big believer of learning from each other. It doesn't need to be your senior, but learning from each other, being in a place. Now I'm okay to take, you know, being in a Zoom place also or whatever that virtual space is, but there's a balance between the two. So one of the things uh basically in this the development, the personal development, or the you know, investing in each other, the power of personal connections needs to maintain. It doesn't need to be five weeks, five working uh days a week. I'm not, I don't mean that I fully embrace the flexible, but that needs to be a balance, it's not one extreme. So that's that's something I think you know the old organizations need to think about. I am thinking about that a lot in my team. We have some routines, we call them the management routine, so that we deliver our responsibility to our people to learn from us as the seniors. That's one. The the the second is the curiosity. Now, this is the it's gonna be like an ask rather than what I can do. But you know, what helped me historically to keep learning, or what is still helping me keep learning is the curiosity. Most people, if not all, naturally are curious, right? You know, we are born as curious creatures, right? I mean, I think yeah, I mean, especially and that curiosity, unfortunately, typically goes in a negative curve over time if you are not consciously feeding your curiosity. I think that is something that you know we need to encourage each other to spark that curiosity. And I'm not talking about now everybody needs to think about AI, which is a popular topic, but anything, right? You know, I'm I'm just curious about, for example, how you moved from corporate life to what you today. I'm just very curious and I want to understand more. I think that I'm, I think most of us are like that, but uh unfortunately, because we are so focused on our day jobs, we often, if there's one trade-off, okay, I'll deal with it later. I'm gonna look into look it up later. My recommendation to everybody no, don't delay. Just bring your curiosity to your day in, day out, ask, find an opportunity, and most of the large organizations like us typically find a way to feed the curiosity by giving the resources. Those are the two things that I would call out.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

There's a connection, I think, isn't there, between the point you made earlier about being present and being curious, because one reinforces the other. That's a good point. If you're curious about the conversation now, you are naturally more present. Any thoughts about how leadership is evolving or has to shift?

SPEAKER_00 16:55

Two things in the leaders uh have become, I think, much more powerful than the past. One is authenticity, second is humility. I think that's a good thing. I mean, nobody would say otherwise for a long time. The if you look into the new CEOs that are being appointed, I see that trend. I think people do appreciate it. I think you know the boards realize that as well. Those very strong characters are not necessarily anymore the first choice. The diverse, the open, the authentic, the huge the humble profiles, I think are making much bigger impact, inspiring others and bringing that vision and followership more than the old days.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

Focusing on managers of teams that are more diverse, perhaps more complex. Any words of advice or wisdom about how do you manage this increasingly demanding role of leading more complex, more diverse units within organizations, whether it's a team or a department or a global division?

SPEAKER_00 17:52

What do you have to say about that, Tylen? Yeah, so I'm I'm a big time believer that you know you get better outcomes in a diverse environment, I think. The big difference is you bring it into how you run the business day in, day out. Like, you know, in my case, for example, which is a simple thing, but it worked for me. I do not start my interview, formal interviews, unless I have a 50-50 gender list. It's my rule. Simple thing, as an example. If you expand this to the broader diversity agenda, it gets harder. I don't deny it. But this, the personal connection behind the agenda, I think is a prerequisite for making a big difference. And finally, Andy, this is gonna resonate with you. One of the things that resonates with me a lot and stayed with me a long time ago is the helping each other to fulfill the potential. I think that's very powerful, right? If you think about that, it doesn't matter who you are, it doesn't matter who I am in the broad sense. And if the organization, if the people around me are helping me to fulfill my potential by being inclusive, by promoting diversity in that environment, it's brilliant. It's almost like this social aspect of this, it's very powerful. And I now obviously getting older, my daughter is now starting soon university. You know, I'm I'm just thinking about that. You know, she has a long, you know, hopefully many years ahead of her. Now I'm thinking I hope she's gonna give in those opportunities. But that's not given all the time. That's not given all the time. I think people like us have a role to play.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

How can leaders help themselves to not burn out or to not put the wrong foot forward inadvertently?

SPEAKER_00 19:25

If you can create an environment where people feel safe, and I think the safety is a big one. We have those moments where the fear of failure, that's something that is, you know, of the the responsibility of the the leaders in creating a culture where that fear of failure is not is not a is not a blocker for for people to achieve that enjoyment. Yeah. The joy moments. You know, I think that's very important. It's not only yourself, because let's admit, right, you know, we don't always choose what we do in the corporate life, right? It's I think it's a too ideal thinking. It doesn't happen all the time. We all have our tasks, our jobs to be done. You are not gonna always hit the mark and say, oh wow, I love this task. It's not gonna happen. The key thing is that, you know, the the the broader ecosystem where you are part of, do you feel that, you know, the sense of security, even if you don't hit the mark all the time? Yes or no? I'd like to say here more yes. I want to say yes myself. Relaxes me, but different context. Consciously, what else I do? I do, I love DIY. Actually, in LinkedIn, I I posted one of my uh articles. It was what I wanted to be when I was young. I wanted to be a mechanic. I love creating stuff, I love fixing stuff. Unfortunately, I didn't manage to become one, but I still try to create things at home. And that helps me a lot. If I focus on something, I touch something, I feel it, and I see the outcome of it. That's extremely relaxing for me.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

To come back to the the difficult task of management and leadership, and you talked about authenticity and separately your skill, let's say, today of being present and tuning into the other person. How do you navigate being at the same time more and more yourself while at the same time adapting to the needs of the other person? Any comments on this sort of tension that needs to be navigated by anyone who's leading others?

SPEAKER_00 21:16

So I think one should remind herself and himself that hey, you're not there by coincidence, you're there for a reason. So be confident. Small thing, you may say this is a bit bitty, you know, imposter. We all have imposter, right? We need to admit at every level. So if you internalize, if you embrace that, and if you just say that, hey, I'm here for a reason, you know, whatever I did so far on balance it worked. I think that confidence gives you the right to be a bit like who you are, you know and don't necessarily all the time say, hey, you know, I have to say this, I have to look like this, I have to behave like that. You know, it's not ignorance of the what the expectations of you, but just be confident, right? Who you are is actually has worked. Small thing, but a good reminder. The next thing is that. And you know, don't be complacent, right? Listen, get feedback. Be a coachy, be a mentee. Not always, you know, don't take it as being a coach and a mentor. Just be curious about asking people, hey, Farley, what do you think about me? You mean you don't need to send me a survey of 35 questions, like, you know, give me feedback. Believe me or not, I do it. I think that, you know, you may call it a curiosity, but it's more the interest of the 360, the diverse view of the people around you. I think it's very powerful. Most people, if not all, are very generous to give feedback. Those are two things confidence and getting feedback proactively.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

You talked about your daughter briefly, and as she progresses in her career, what sorts of tips would you give her to be a brilliant leader from the start?

SPEAKER_00 22:42

So a few things. First, follow your heart, listen to your heart. Most people, all people have this golden heart. Just listen to your heart. One. Two, from her early ages, she can recognize the patterns. I say, look, you know, you need to make use good use of this, the pattern recognition. She can watch a movie today, and three months later, something that she captured from there, she can link into the moment that after three months is happening. That's what I mean by the pattern recognition. And I think it's quite a gift, you know. And by the way, I suspect most of us do have that. I always tell her to make good use of it. But finally, I mean, what often seems so so big problem, like almost end of the world, is we all learn over time that actually was a piece of cake in the broader scheme of things. You know, now I've never seen anybody who gets there quickly. I haven't got there quickly. Like, you know, the things that I made a big deal, even 15 years ago. I'm not talking about when I was a teenage, 15 years ago, now it takes me 30 minutes to move on, which took me probably 30 days. That's a big advice that I keep giving to my daughter, saying, hey, you know, just take it easy, relax. This happens to everybody. But I think, you know, you only learn painfully. And whatever and how many times I say, I think she needs to learn herself. Those are the three things. One second one is a bit probably quite specific to my daughter.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Well, I was thinking about how to generalize those three things. One is to follow or listen to your heart. And everyone should be encouraged to find a signature strength. In your daughter's case, it's connecting dots, seeing patterns. Play to that signature strength of yours. And the third one, perhaps, even if you can't shortcut time, is work at putting things into perspective and and of course leverage experience.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

You do what you do for a reason, Farley.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

Thank you. Thank you, Thailand. Thank you. It's great. That was a fantastic conversation, and I wanted to thank you, Thailand, for giving up your time.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

And it's so so enjoyable to talk to you. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

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